4 hours ago, Frozey.8513 said:
This goes for all the Legends with the exception of Glint and Mallyx. We don't channel to Legends because of their power standing among their peers, we channel to them due to their historical significance - their Legend status that was established by their actions, and that is what we draw our powers from.
2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:
I think it's more about the "story" of these legends than their real abilities.
Historical significance is the main "in universe" criteria.
However, I think it's a bit of a waste when revenant just copies the theme of another profession.
While many of the legends are members of an existing profession, the powers you actually channel are typically associated with the thing that made them a legend, not how they actually would have fought in life. Channel Jalis, and you're effectively channelling the Rite of the Great Dwarf and the dwarf spirit as a whole, you're not just copying the powers Jalis had in life (we can see whatthosewere in the GW1 wiki). Ventari is all about the tablet - you're not really channelling Ventari,you're actually channelling the founding principles of sylvari culture.Channel Kalla, and you're not just cosplaying as the greatsword/shortbow ranger she probably was in life, you're literally calling on the spirits of the revolution. Shiro comes closest, since he was an assassin, his skills are assassinlike, and you are mostly copying them... but that assassin-likeis important: he was empowered well beyond the assassins of his day, and even those skills that aren't directly invoking the Jade Wind are still tinged by it.
The duo just don't have that. Impact on the Kurzick and Luxon societies? They're revered, but their impact wasn't really all that significant. They didn't establish the cultures, they were already centuries old at that point. They didn't help their societies survive the Jade Wind - they were already dead. Their cooperation didn't herald peace and friendship between their cultures - the Kurzicks and Luxons fell straight back into on-again-off-again fighting that only ended when both were rendered functionally extinct by the Ministry of Purity.
So what skills do they have? It basically just feels like you're copying a W/E and a W/Rt. Seriously, you could transplant their skills into the utilities of a melee elementalist spec (would be more interesting than what Catalyst actually received, and maybe if Catalyst was Luxon-themed it could have the animal spheres without them being projected holograms) and a guardian spec with minor modifications and they wouldn't feel out of place. The only thing they have special is that they're a two-for-one deal, but since they require very different stats (and ArenaNet seems to be hostile to condi vindicator, and therefore celestial vindicator, existing), in practice you very rarely see players actually take advantage of that.
My philosophy - and it mostly held up to Vindicator as discussed above, with Shiro being a possible minor exception - is that revenant is an opportunity to have powers that don't fall within the usual bracket of what the other professions can do,so that's what it should do. If something could fit into another profession, that's where it should be. Is there a famous member of that profession you want to reference? Great, make that famous member the founder of the tradition that led to the latest elite specialisation forthatprofession, they don't need to be a revenant legend. The most boring thing I can possibly imagine for revenant, apart from no new legends at all, is if they made a mesmer legend and a warrior legend and a necromancer legend and... you get the picture.
Which is why I normally propose monstrous legends (Glint, Mallyx, Zhu Hanuku). Or individuals that have been externally empowered by some more-than-mortal power (Jalis, Shiro, Asgeir, Svanir). Or failing that, at least theme the legend's skillset around theirdeeds,and the consequences of those deeds,rather than just a copy of the skillset they might have had in life. Ventari probably wasn't shifting a giant stone tablet around to heal people when he was alive, and I don't think Kalla was summoning spirits of her warband in life unless they all died before her (I'm pretty sure they didn't...) and she was secretly a ritualist all along.
So if it's a Tengu, it shouldn't just be a serious of warrior-like skills because Talon Silverwing is the tengu everyone thinks of. Make the skills reflect the winds that the Dominion was named after, or the challenges the tengu faced in their migration and the means used to overcome them. If it's a warden theme... that's honestly basically Urgoz, although I'm not sure how to make a good legend out of him. Ministry of Purity? Don't just make it a set of mesmer skills because Reiko, make it a set of skills that reflect the ideals of Purity and the harsh measures employed to enforce them.
holy kitten I just realised that firebrand isn't guardian/elementalist or anything else that's been proposed, it's guardian/revenantchannelling the spirit of the Elonian people through the tomes.
TLDR:Revenant is the opportunity for crazy stuff that doesn't fit in any other profession, it's a waste when a revenant legend is just copying what could be in the skillset of another profession.
1 hour ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:
Not sure where that was said, the revenant was always said as a mist warrior, that channeled that power of others. Revenants are not "darker, anti-paladin" types though that appearance wasn't helped by the official revenant armor. They are actually a combination of ritualist and warrior from Guild Wars 1. Neither of those are a dark anti-paladin.
They did say that revenant was a darker profession, but I'm pretty sure that was in the context of being willing to channel the legends of villains (such as Mallyx and Shiro, ArenaNet seems to have held back from using villains since) rather than everything being dark as a generalthing.To be fair, having a couple of 'dark' weapons can be viewed as balancing out all four elite legends being heroic in nature - they'd probably feel better if they had actually come with a legend, and had been designed to work with those weapons rather than feeling like they're just throwing stuff at the wall and insisting that it sticks even when people can plainly see the streaks they left sliding down to the floor.
It does strike me that revenant and engineer are probably the professions which are least suited to weapons being the main source of "new combat options". Revenant is so heavily defined by the legends that it's hard for revenant to really feel fresh without a new legend - running condi herald or condi renegade with spear is still running Mallyx/Glint or Mallyx/Kalla when all's said and done, after all. While engineer is typically so heavily defined by its utilities that it's hard for a weapon to really freshen up the profession when you're still using the same utilities, especially when the lack of a weaponswap makes competition for that slot that much fiercer - I do wonder sometimes if engineer might be better off getting a new kit than a new weapon (as long as the balance team actually commits to keeping the kits up to date).
Edited by draxynnic.3719
